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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:21 am 
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The QLD government is set to ban any teaching of climate change in schools which links global temperature rises to human activity. The LNP has long denied humans played any role in climate change, and is set to use its unprecedented majority in parliament to ensure that QLD children are brought up believing that climate change science is left wing propaganda, and current global warming is a naturally occurring phenomenon.

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Climate 'propaganda' on LNP summit hit list
July 13, 2012 - 3:00AM

LNP president Bruce McIver believes children are being “brainwashed” in the way climate science is taught in schools.
A push to ban “environmental propaganda” from schools and teach “normal science” about climate change is among motions set to be discussed at the Liberal National Party convention beginning today.

LNP members will consider 101 motions, including proposals to remove union entry rights under workplace health and safety laws, ensure insurance companies cover all types of flood damage, and introduce four-year fixed terms to Queensland Parliament.

The LNP's Thuringowa State Electorate Council has also called on the LNP government to increase speed limits on open roads to 130km/h where possible.

The three-day convention is the first major LNP gathering since the party swept to power in Queensland in a landslide in March.

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The event, at the Hilton Hotel in Brisbane, will include keynote addresses by Premier Campbell Newman and federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott today.

The LNP will also consider whether to support a raft of motions put forward by grassroots members in various parts of the state.

For example, the LNP's Noosa State Electorate Council says the LNP should call on Education Minister John-Paul Langbroek to “require Queensland government schools to remove environmental propaganda material [and] in particular post normal science about 'climate change'”.

At last year's conference, LNP president Bruce McIver questioned the role of humans in driving climate change, arguing the climate was always changing and children were being “brainwashed” in the way climate science was taught.

Other motions set for debate at this year's convention include a push by the Young LNP to change state workplace health and safety laws.

The proposed change would remove union access rights under the workplace health and safety entry permit system, while preserving the power of other inspectors.

The LNP's state executive has proposed a motion calling on the government to allow union members greater knowledge of the financial details of their union affairs.

This would include requiring unions that operate within Queensland industrial laws to register with the Office of Fair Trading.

The motion suggests unions with turnover of more than $1 million a year should be required to report at the standard of compliance required by public companies including having registered company auditors.

The state executive also wants to stop public servants from having their union dues paid through payroll deductions, in a move it says would “help prevent discrimination either for or against union membership in the public service”.

A motion by the LNP Women in Callide Valley, meanwhile, calls for companies providing flood insurance to cover any flood damage no matter how it is caused, in the wake of concerns raised during the 2010-11 Queensland floods.

LNP Women in Brisbane South wants the LNP government to “provide further community education to health and allied health professionals (among others) about adoption in Queensland to raise awareness about and promotion of adoption as an option for women with unplanned or crisis pregnancies”.

The Ipswich State Electorate Council has put forward a motion that would seem to stray from the standard conservative “tough on crime” theme.

It suggests Attorney-General Jarrod Bleijie should consider the introduction of home and weekend detention as an alternative to imprisonment for less serious, non-violent offending in Queensland.

Keynote speakers at the convention tomorrow will be federal Nationals leader Warren Truss and deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop. Brisbane lord mayor Graham Quirk will speak on Sunday.

Protesters are likely to descend on the convention. Equal rights advocates are calling on same-sex couples to join a “mass civil ceremonies and kiss-in” outside the LNP convention on Saturday.

About 390 people have declared on Facebook they will attend the rally, called to protest the LNP's moves to water down same-sex civil union laws and ban gay and lesbian couples from surrogacy.



Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... z20SeK6qfh


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:24 am 
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And your thoughts are.............


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:35 am 
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Miester wrote:
And your thoughts are.............


I'm always uncomfortable when governments seek to manipulate information, and censor what is being taught in schools, for no other reason than to further their political agenda. Especially given the huge weight of scientific research that supports the theory that climate change is being largely influenced by human activity.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:39 am 
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Is a vote buyer and means sweet fuck all until he defines which parts of these lessons are propoganda and which parts are "normal science". Put your cards on the table sir and lets see how your scientific literacy holds up.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:40 am 
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Wtf is "normal science"? Their opinion on climate change I assume. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:41 am 
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Would have thought Queenslanders would be particularly sensitive about man's impact on the weather system given how they nearly drowned last year.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:41 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Miester wrote:
And your thoughts are.............


I'm always uncomfortable when governments seek to manipulate information, and censor what is being taught in schools, for no other reason than to further their political agenda. Especially given the huge weight of scientific research that supports the theory that climate change is being largely influenced by human activity.


Shhhhhh that's not "normal science"!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:45 am 
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Muttonbird wrote:
Would have thought Queenslanders would be particularly sensitive about man's impact on the weather system given how they nearly drowned last year.


QLD is arguably more at risk to the impacts of climate change than any other state.

I really fear for QLD under the Newman govt. The man is the most powerful state premier in Australian history. He controls 90% of seats in a single house parliamentary system. He has complete power, total control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:48 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Miester wrote:
And your thoughts are.............


I'm always uncomfortable when governments seek to manipulate information, and censor what is being taught in schools, for no other reason than to further their political agenda. Especially given the huge weight of scientific research that supports the theory that climate change is being largely influenced by human activity.



I dont yet think they have proofed diddly squat....lots of theories, confusing and deferring data that at best suggests it, but certainly not enough to build a curricular around it!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:51 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Muttonbird wrote:
Would have thought Queenslanders would be particularly sensitive about man's impact on the weather system given how they nearly drowned last year.


QLD is arguably more at risk to the impacts of climate change than any other state.

I really fear for QLD under the Newman govt. The man is the most powerful state premier in Australian history. He controls 90% of seats in a single house parliamentary system. He has complete power, total control.


Yes. I don't divorce "climate change" in terms of CO2/methane emmisions from natural disasters based on our effect on the geographical environment from farming and cropping.

Stripping the land of it's natural systems for profit is just as damaging.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:53 am 
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That's weird considering that flood engineers generally apply a "greenhouse effect" as a scenario for flood models near the coast. As in raising the coastal water. This is insisted by the state and local governments.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:54 am 
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Miester wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Miester wrote:
And your thoughts are.............


I'm always uncomfortable when governments seek to manipulate information, and censor what is being taught in schools, for no other reason than to further their political agenda. Especially given the huge weight of scientific research that supports the theory that climate change is being largely influenced by human activity.



I dont yet think they have proofed diddly squat....lots of theories, confusing and deferring data that at best suggests it, but certainly not enough to build a curricular around it!


That's interesting. Seems you agree with the LNP, a traditionally uneducated, rural based party which has always maintained that climate change is a left wing hoax.

As an aside, since coming into power just over 100 days ago the LNP has slashed civil union and surrogacy rights for gays, despite a pre-election promise not to. They have also booted the few remaining Opposition MPs out of their parliamentry offices, relocating them to some vacant offices several kms from parliament house. Democracy QLD style!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:09 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Miester wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Miester wrote:
And your thoughts are.............


I'm always uncomfortable when governments seek to manipulate information, and censor what is being taught in schools, for no other reason than to further their political agenda. Especially given the huge weight of scientific research that supports the theory that climate change is being largely influenced by human activity.



I dont yet think they have proofed diddly squat....lots of theories, confusing and deferring data that at best suggests it, but certainly not enough to build a curricular around it!


That's interesting. Seems you agree with the LNP, a traditionally uneducated, rural based party which has always maintained that climate change is a left wing hoax.

As an aside, since coming into power just over 100 days ago the LNP has slashed civil union and surrogacy rights for gays, despite a pre-election promise not to. They have also booted the few remaining Opposition MPs out of their parliamentry offices, relocating them to some vacant offices several kms from parliament house. Democracy QLD style!

Be careful AC, I may agree with the policy regarding CC teachings in school, I may even agree regarding gays rights, but dont include me with the rest thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:09 am 
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Thomas wrote:
That's weird considering that flood engineers generally apply a "greenhouse effect" as a scenario for flood models near the coast. As in raising the coastal water. This is insisted by the state and local governments.


I think we are allowing a 0.7m rise in sea levels for a rather iconic harbourside site we are doing in Melbourne at the moment.
Thats a state govt requirement.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:13 am 
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With the number of earthquakes going on around the pacific rim, volcanoes etc under the sea, its a wonder none has mentioned these as having anything to do with sea levels and carbon etc....as i understand it, you only need one volcano eruption to put us back years.....


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:21 am 
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In NSW the kids get swamped with climate change in Geography and Science. I don't agree with the current system where the only argument suggests that climate change is happening! I would like to see arguments for both sides and let the kids make up their own minds.

So I am in support of this post. It is the wrong thing to do. The kids need both sides of the argument.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:36 am 
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Farva wrote:
Thomas wrote:
That's weird considering that flood engineers generally apply a "greenhouse effect" as a scenario for flood models near the coast. As in raising the coastal water. This is insisted by the state and local governments.


I think we are allowing a 0.7m rise in sea levels for a rather iconic harbourside site we are doing in Melbourne at the moment.
Thats a state govt requirement.


An American state (it was Alabama I believe) recently barred engineers from using climate change inputs in their forecasting.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:37 am 
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SMG wrote:
In NSW the kids get swamped with climate change in Geography and Science. I don't agree with the current system where the only argument suggests that climate change is happening! I would like to see arguments for both sides and let the kids make up their own minds.

So I am in support of this post. It is the wrong thing to do. The kids need both sides of the argument.


That's utter bollocks, Coog. Teaching science doesn't consist of giving kids a list of what might be true and letting them decide.

For example, there are two competing theories of the topology of the earth: flat and curved.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:02 am 
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SMG wrote:
In NSW the kids get swamped with climate change in Geography and Science. I don't agree with the current system where the only argument suggests that climate change is happening! I would like to see arguments for both sides and let the kids make up their own minds.

So I am in support of this post. It is the wrong thing to do. The kids need both sides of the argument.


If scientists are overwhelmingly in agreement that something is true, why spend limited teaching time on something like that? Are you also in favour of other nutbar theories (creationism) being taught in public schools?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:11 am 
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This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:31 am 
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6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


Indeed. There is no reason to "teach the controversy" when the controvery only exists in the minds of a very small number of mentally ill people.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:51 am 
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This is absolutely despicable on a number of levels.

Not only is it teaching ignorance in schools, but it's propaganda aimed at children and a wilful distortion of democracy (for what little that is still worth).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:52 am 
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6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


:thumbup:

Scary indeed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:54 am 
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Psychologist wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


Indeed. There is no reason to "teach the controversy" when the controvery only exists in the minds of a very small number of mentally ill people.

No offence, Psychologist, but you've reflexively taken this one onto the couch.

Groucho had it covered.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:43 am 
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Quote:
I don't agree with the current system where the only argument suggests that climate change is happening! I would like to see arguments for both sides and let the kids make up their own minds.

The exact argument of creationists ... !!!

Jesus Coog - prominent sceptical scientist Richard Muller - working on a study funded by big business with an agenda - had to come out and state that he was 'converted' ... the evidence was that overwhelming.

You are becoming a real fanatic.


Last edited by eugenius on Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:50 am 
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kiap wrote:
Psychologist wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


Indeed. There is no reason to "teach the controversy" when the controvery only exists in the minds of a very small number of mentally ill people.

No offence, Psychologist, but you've reflexively taken this one onto the couch.

Groucho had it covered.


Whatever. Religion is a mental illness.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:53 am 
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Psychologist wrote:
kiap wrote:
Psychologist wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


Indeed. There is no reason to "teach the controversy" when the controvery only exists in the minds of a very small number of mentally ill people.

No offence, Psychologist, but you've reflexively taken this one onto the couch.

Groucho had it covered.


Whatever. Religion is a mental illness.

Gotcha now. Was just checking something.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:02 am 
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Doesn't QLD have history for dodgy premiers?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:03 am 
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You can't teach something that has Yet to be proven!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:06 am 
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Petros wrote:
Doesn't QLD have history for dodgy premiers?


Joh Bjelke- Petersen was dumped as premier back in 1987, and QLD has been fairly well served since then. The problem now is that we are effectively a one party state, so dominant was the LNP's recent election win. Campbell Newman is doing a good job destroying much of the good will that brought him into office four months ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:10 am 
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Miester wrote:
You can't teach something that has Yet to be proven!


Like evolution?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:11 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Muttonbird wrote:
Would have thought Queenslanders would be particularly sensitive about man's impact on the weather system given how they nearly drowned last year.


QLD is arguably more at risk to the impacts of climate change than any other state.

I really fear for QLD under the Newman govt. The man is the most powerful state premier in Australian history. He controls 90% of seats in a single house parliamentary system. He has complete power, total control.


The battles been lost AC.

And hopefully the Queensland Govt will stop this the world is going to end because of tiny increases in CO2 unless we all pay the ruling elite huge money and let them control our lives more pseudo science being taught in schools as real science.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:14 am 
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Silver wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Muttonbird wrote:
Would have thought Queenslanders would be particularly sensitive about man's impact on the weather system given how they nearly drowned last year.


QLD is arguably more at risk to the impacts of climate change than any other state.

I really fear for QLD under the Newman govt. The man is the most powerful state premier in Australian history. He controls 90% of seats in a single house parliamentary system. He has complete power, total control.


The battles been lost AC.

And hopefully the Queensland Govt will stop this the world is going to end because of tiny increases in CO2 unless we all pay the ruling elite huge money and let them control our lives more pseudo science being taught in schools as real science.


Aha, the living argument against this has arrived.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:20 am 
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6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


:lol:

No greater scientific weight. In fact its science v pseudo science. And the public have now largely woken up.

Trillion in carbon taxes and carbon trading for what. So a very small minority can get very very rich. While CO2 just keeps on rising.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:21 am 
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Miester wrote:
You can't teach something that has Yet to be proven!


They teach religion and there have been various attempts to teach Creationism! :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:22 am 
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Silver wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


:lol:

No greater scientific weight. In fact its science v pseudo science. And the public have now largely woken up.

Trillion in carbon taxes and carbon trading for what. So a very small minority can get very very rich. While CO2 just keeps on rising.


The outcome of this will be a Queensland of Silvers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:24 am 
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Ikaponthus wrote:
This is absolutely despicable on a number of levels.

Not only is it teaching ignorance in schools, but it's propaganda aimed at children and a wilful distortion of democracy (for what little that is still worth).



Agree if you were referring to the teaching of man made global warming


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:28 am 
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Anyway time to watch rugby.

I will leave you to it.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:14 am 
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Silver wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


:lol:

No greater scientific weight. In fact its science v pseudo science. And the public have now largely woken up.

Trillion in carbon taxes and carbon trading for what. So a very small minority can get very very rich. While CO2 just keeps on rising.


It's no surprise it's rising, in historical terms it's at a low level. There has in fact been much more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past. During the Jurassic period average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.7 times higher than today. During the Cambrian period it was nearly 7000 ppm. The Late Ordovician period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today...4400 ppm. And as for temperature, it's also been warmer at several periods of human history than now.

I've no problem with schools science department teaching kids about climate change theories and evidence to support the theories...but they should also show them theories that contradicts it with corresponding evidence. That's science. And when it comes to science nothing is ever settled. Something manmade climate change advocates should remember.

I look forward to being labelled mentally ill by some of you now. But the fact is, if I'm right then you're all fretting and wasting money over something out of your control. If you're right...well I live 171 metres above sea level, I'll be fine. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:23 am 
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sidesteppingloosehead wrote:
Silver wrote:
6roucho wrote:
This is the main tactic of science denial writ large: to tell people that contrarian opinions have the same scientific weight as established theories. It's precisely the same method as creationists use and it's disconcertingly effective.


:lol:

No greater scientific weight. In fact its science v pseudo science. And the public have now largely woken up.

Trillion in carbon taxes and carbon trading for what. So a very small minority can get very very rich. While CO2 just keeps on rising.


It's no surprise it's rising, in historical terms it's at a low level. There has in fact been much more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past. During the Jurassic period average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.7 times higher than today. During the Cambrian period it was nearly 7000 ppm. The Late Ordovician period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today...4400 ppm. And as for temperature, it's also been warmer at several periods of human history than now.

I've no problem with schools science department teaching kids about climate change theories and evidence to support the theories...but they should also show them theories that contradicts it with corresponding evidence. That's science. And when it comes to science nothing is ever settled. Something manmade climate change advocates should remember.

I look forward to being labelled mentally ill by some of you now. But the fact is, if I'm right then you're all fretting and wasting money over something out of your control. If you're right...well I live 171 metres above sea level, I'll be fine. ;)



Real science and evidence is not allowed on this thread. This is about the world ending due to evil man made CO2.


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