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 Post subject: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:49 am 
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According to Daily Telegraph:
Christian Wade and Tom Youngs will be included in SA tour announced today.Other new faces in the squad for the three-Test tour include Wasps lock Joe Launchbury, Bath flanker Carl Fearns and uncapped Harlequins quartet George Robson (lock), George Lowe (centre), Joe Gray (hooker) and Joe Marler (prop).

It is understood Sale prop Henry Thomas, 20, had been earmarked for selection but was ruled out after being injured on Saturday. His place is set to be taken by Worcester’s Matt Mullan, alongside fellow props Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Paul Doran-Jones, Marler and Matt Stevens.

There will be recalls for Harlequins duo, wing Ugo Monye, who won the last of his 13 caps in March 2010, and scrum-half Danny Care. Loose forward James Haskell will also be back in the fold, despite playing in the Super 15 as both Tom Croft and Tom Wood are ruled out because of injury and Calum Clark serving a long ban.

England are understood to be confident that Scarlets No 8 Ben Morgan’s hamstring injury will not prevent him from touring, while Steffon Armitage, despite being widely hailed as the best flanker in the Top 14, is not thought to have been included.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:54 am 
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Certainly won't be a lack of pace. Shame for Thomas.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:55 am 
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They should pick Armitage. On the hard ground he would be superb.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:59 am 
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bcbb wrote:
According to Daily Telegraph:
Christian Wade and Tom Youngs will be included in SA tour announced today.Other new faces in the squad for the three-Test tour include Wasps lock Joe Launchbury, Bath flanker Carl Fearns and uncapped Harlequins quartet George Robson (lock), George Lowe (centre), Joe Gray (hooker) and Joe Marler (prop).

It is understood Sale prop Henry Thomas, 20, had been earmarked for selection but was ruled out after being injured on Saturday. His place is set to be taken by Worcester’s Matt Mullan, alongside fellow props Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Paul Doran-Jones, Marler and Matt Stevens.

There will be recalls for Harlequins duo, wing Ugo Monye, who won the last of his 13 caps in March 2010, and scrum-half Danny Care. Loose forward James Haskell will also be back in the fold, despite playing in the Super 15 as both Tom Croft and Tom Wood are ruled out because of injury and Calum Clark serving a long ban.

England are understood to be confident that Scarlets No 8 Ben Morgan’s hamstring injury will not prevent him from touring, while Steffon Armitage, despite being widely hailed as the best flanker in the Top 14, is not thought to have been included.

Last month Lancaster made it clear he was picking Wade seemingly for the midweek team and was also talking about Henry Trinder.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:07 am 
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Given the missing blind side flankers, and the opportunity to play Robshaw at 6, it seems madness not taking Fat Steffon. Great opportunity to give him some game time.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:10 am 
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danny care would be a surprise, its not as though he's been behaving himself after getting axed from the squad.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:16 am 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... frica.html

Quote:
“It’s been a terrible six months and I’m not looking for a sympathy vote because it’s been my own fault, all very grim but self-inflicted,” Care said. “I deluded myself after the first incident in December that it was just one of those things and that lads would occasionally get into trouble. I was making an excuse to myself. To get thrown out of the England squad was just dreadful, a real hammer blow.

“I put Stuart in such an awful position where the first big thing he had to do as England head coach is kick me out. That was so embarrassing for him and shameful for me. I had to have a good hard look in the mirror after that, say some harsh things to myself to make me realise that I was just chucking away my career. And hurting people in the process.

“It’s easy for me to say I don’t have a drink problem, but I don’t feel that I do, just that I make bad decisions when I do drink. Anyway, I set myself a target of not drinking again this season and I’ve been off the booze for a couple of months.

“The sessions with Kate have helped enormously. I’m a happy sort of bloke and I do bottle things up and not show emotions. The fact that I missed the World Cup through injury and then the Six Nations hit me harder than I let on. That’s when things began to slip, I lost my rugby focus and got into trouble.”


the next step is usually finding god


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:26 am 
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As a Bok fan I'm glad Steffon Armitage won't be picked. I've been watching him in the T14 and he has been simply sensational.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:32 am 
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Not including Fatty Armitage would be a mistake I think, he has shown in the Top 14 he deserves another chance. Plus, it would nice to actually play a 7 at 7.

Also, why Monye? He hasn't exactly been tearing it up for Quins has he.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:42 am 
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geordie_6 wrote:
Not including Fatty Armitage would be a mistake I think, he has shown in the Top 14 he deserves another chance. Plus, it would nice to actually play a 7 at 7.

Also, why Monye? He hasn't exactly been tearing it up for Quins has he.


He's going to be the new Mark Cueto.

In all fairness, the bloke has shown himself to be a decent player at international level. He's got good defense and plenty of gas. We could do a lot worse.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:51 am 
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So based on the atricles in the press, it is looking like:

Props: Mullan, Corbisiero, Cole, Doran-Jones, Marler ,Stevens.

Hookers: Hartley, Youngs, Gray

2nd row : Parling, Botha, Palmer, Robson

BR: Robshaw, Morgan, Haskell, Fearns, Launchbury, Waldrom, Dowson

SH: Youngs, Care, Dickson

FH: Farrell, Flood, Hodgson

Centres: Barritt, Manu, Lowe, JTH, Allan, May

Wings: Strettle, Ashton, Wade, Monye, Banahan

FB: Foden, Brown, Goode

+ 3 others


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:52 am 
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Steffon Armitage might be playing in the Top 14 final on the same day as the 1st Test vs South Africa.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:52 am 
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Armitage may well be playing for Toulon the same day England play the first test match. You lot need to take more of an interest in these things.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:05 am 
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Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:16 am 
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theo wrote:
They should pick Armitage. On the hard ground he would be superb.



Agreed, it would also be a welcome sign from Lancaster that he picks on form and is not tied to rigid protocol.

edit: I think it is difficult to pick Armitage as the French season is still going when the tour starts!


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:19 am 
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Yes, how dare Lancaster not choose players who can't yet confirm their availability.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:24 am 
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Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:25 am 
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45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:26 am 
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Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


A good point well made.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:26 am 
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Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


its a pretty poor excuse for lancaster to not pick him though. him and wiggy could nip over to toulon and bundle him into a sack and take him to africa if they really wanted to.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:27 am 
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theo wrote:
Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


A good point well made.


Surprised nobody else had pointed it out already, tbh.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:28 am 
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Womack wrote:
theo wrote:
Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


A good point well made.


Surprised nobody else had pointed it out already, tbh.


I agree. Clearly they all know-nothings.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:29 am 
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What time is the squad announcement?


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:29 am 
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fatman wrote:
him and wiggy could nip over to toulon and bundle him into a sack and take him to africa if they really wanted to.




That's how they got him out of Africa in the first place [/edge]


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:48 am 
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Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:57 am 
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45jumper wrote:
Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


Goode deserves his place. Saracens most exciting back in the games i've watched. I know that a lot of people think that Glos should have more players in the england squad but the way they have collapsed at the end of this season is a large cross against them. It says a lot that Tindall and other experienced glos players have not been able to motivate the team to perform in recent weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:58 am 
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Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


I'm not apologising for not keeping up to date with goings on in France, I hate the bastards.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:58 am 
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45jumper wrote:
Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace and as well as they seem to play at club level I'm not convinced Lowe or Trinder will trouble top international defences.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:00 am 
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I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace


Will Addison is the future.

I'd be amazed if Lowe doesn't go, he is an outstanding player.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:02 am 
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fatman wrote:
Womack wrote:
Oi, fuckwits, anyone with even a modicum of Rugby knowledge would know that Steffon Armitage may well be playing in the T14 final on the day of the first test. Like.


its a pretty poor excuse for lancaster to not pick him though. him and wiggy could nip over to toulon and bundle him into a sack and take him to africa if they really wanted to.


Considering the June test windows mean clubs have to release players, England would have first call on him.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:05 am 
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Brazil wrote:
Quote:
I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace


Will Addison is the future.

I'd be amazed if Lowe doesn't go, he is an outstanding player.


Addison looks a special player - that try at the week-end against Quins was quite something.

England have a lot of young talented centres coming through - Daly, Joseph, Lowe, May, Addison.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:06 am 
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Petej wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


Goode deserves his place. Saracens most exciting back in the games i've watched. I know that a lot of people think that Glos should have more players in the england squad but the way they have collapsed at the end of this season is a large cross against them. It says a lot that Tindall and other experienced glos players have not been able to motivate the team to perform in recent weeks.


Bizarrely enough, as I was driving home from work, I saw Tindall and several of the Glos boys outside HQ last night, dressed up in DJs.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:07 am 
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choc wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace and as well as they seem to play at club level I'm not convinced Lowe or Trinder will trouble top international defences.


I would keep May as a back 3 player (i don't want a repeat of Matthew Tait (bulking up a player who really probably is a winger/fullback) or Cullen). Our outside centre stocks are pretty good with Lowe, Trinder, Joseph and Tuilagi compared with the shite we have been playing over the last 7 years. Tuilagi has better hands then people give him credit and when he gets the ball he causes teams all sorts of problems.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:08 am 
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Brazil wrote:
Quote:
I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace


Will Addison is the future.

I'd be amazed if Lowe doesn't go, he is an outstanding player.


I'd be surprised if Lowe doesnt tour. He cetainly deserves it. Playing in a team that plays as open rugby as quins do, and whilst I expect to be ridiculed by some Fatcat stats shortly, he doesnt seem to make that many breaks and, crucially, score that many tries. May to me has that extra bit of gas and line breaking ability.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:14 am 
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Nobleman wrote:
So based on the atricles in the press, it is looking like:

Props: Mullan, Corbisiero, Cole, Doran-Jones, Marler ,Stevens.
Hookers: Hartley, Youngs, Gray
2nd row : Parling, Botha, Palmer, Robson
BR: Robshaw, Morgan, Haskell, Fearns, Launchbury, Waldrom, Dowson

SH: Youngs, Care, Dickson
FH: Farrell, Flood, Hodgson
Centres: Barritt, Manu, Lowe, JTH, Allan, May
Wings: Strettle, Ashton, Wade, Monye, Banahan
FB: Foden, Brown, Goode

+ 3 others


One of the article that talked about Tom Youngs' selection had him as one of FOUR hookers to be touring.

The one you are missing - apparently - is Lee Mears.


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:19 am 
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choc wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Mitty's Boat wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Joseph had better be in there, as had Wade. I really hope Waldrom's not in there. I'd rather see anyone but him. Anyone.

Delighted Fearns is in, though, and I'd say Miller deserves to go ahead of Goode but it's a close thing. Gutted for Henry Thomas too, would've loved him to spend a bit of time with Rowntree working on his scrummaging.

Times reckons Joseph is in, along with Goode (A) and Kitchener.

Should Wade be selected ahead of January's official Bored Favourite, Johnny May, who was showing sensational form before Glos just gave up? His versatility is a useful asset.


I'd take May ahead of Alex Goode, I think his long term future may be at 15. I think his ridiculous pace and running lines would cause havoc there.


I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace and as well as they seem to play at club level I'm not convinced Lowe or Trinder will trouble top international defences.



We have (Tuilagi aside) Joseph, Lowe, Addison and Trinder at OC for the foreseeable. I suppose we have a lot of options at FB too though, with Foden, Brown, Miller and Goode all viable options.

Come to think of it, when did we suddenly come to have such a surfeit of pacy backs?! :o


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:19 am 
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choc wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Quote:
I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace


Will Addison is the future.

I'd be amazed if Lowe doesn't go, he is an outstanding player.


I'd be surprised if Lowe doesnt tour. He cetainly deserves it. Playing in a team that plays as open rugby as quins do, and whilst I expect to be ridiculed by some Fatcat stats shortly, he doesnt seem to make that many breaks and, crucially, score that many tries. May to me has that extra bit of gas and line breaking ability.


This would be the same George Lowe who was Quins' top try-scorer in both the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons, right?


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:21 am 
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Banahan

Again, what question is being asked where Banahan is the answer?

KG


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:22 am 
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I've not heard of Addison at all. Where is he at?

Elliot Daly not in the running?


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 Post subject: Re: England squad
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:23 am 
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Nobleman wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Quote:
I'd like to see him at OC. After the years of shit slow, bosh it up centres with tits for hands and whislt I think Tuilagi is doing a grand job at the moment, I'd like an outside centre with some pace


Will Addison is the future.

I'd be amazed if Lowe doesn't go, he is an outstanding player.


Addison looks a special player - that try at the week-end against Quins was quite something.

England have a lot of young talented centres coming through - Daly, Joseph, Lowe, May, Addison.


Indeed, it should raise some interesting questions over the next few years, both for the clubs and the national team. I wonder whether we'll move back towards a more conventional backline with a 12 that straightens the line and an expansive 13, though that will depend a great deal on who we select at 10 -Flood could do it, but I wonder whether Farrell is a good enough passer of the ball to properly get the most out that kind of line.


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