I restrained myself from making a sarcastic comment about that one.

BTW, does anyone actually have a bracket for this thing? I can't find one anywhere. I thought I had read the semis were done regionally but Goff's update makes it seem like that is not the case:

My picks:

First Round (1 point each):
BYU
Life
SMC
Ark St

Second Round (2 points each)
BYU
SMC

Final (4 points)
BYU

Tiebreaker (final score of champ game): 45-31

Interesting thread on a BYU board about Cal and college rugby in general:

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/messag ... id=8546165

BYU
Life
Utah
Army

BYU
Utah

BYU

37 - 17

... gotta switch it up a little to make things interesting.

Interesting.

Quarters winners: BYU, Arkansas State, St. Mary's, Life
Semis winners: BYU, St. Mary's
Champs: BYU

I hate that style of message board on the BYU site.

I know it's the Daily Californian but what a powderpuff piece on Cal Rugby. The only bit of real news in it is that Cal plans to devote the fall entirely to 7s and wants to do 4 tournaments.

And no, nwcat on the BYU board is not me but he could vouch for me:



This is a remark a bit out of left field, but considering the sea change in Cal rugby over the past year, does anyone think Clark's been told by the Athletics Department Cal has to win the Collegiate Rugby Championship this coming June or it will result in job trouble for him? Being the only varsity rugby school in a tournament 2 years in a row and losing probably does not look good for him considering the advantage in resources on offer. And this year with Life getting in they'll only be 1 of 2.

Men's Club D-1 championship bracket:

So what's the format for the play-in games? Lower seed travels to higher seed?

Are you referring to the D1 bracket above?

Yeah. Like if it says Belmont/Sac Lions, is it at Belmont or is it at the same spot as everything else before the semis?

The first round of games are hosted by the higher seed. Winner moving on to the Sweet 16 in Pittsburgh, VA for a Round of 16 game on Sat and Quarters on Sunday.

Final 4 in Glendale, first weekend in June.

Yes. If you finished 1st or 2nd in your league you host the round of 32 game versus the team that finished 3rd or 4th in theirs. Two teams get byes as their opponents chose not to travel: Boca Raton forfeited to Palmer and Boulder forfeited to the Austin Blacks.

USAR should oppose it. Just edges in on our selection pool and creates more cannon fodder for the Pacific big three.

In an IRB that recognizes American Samoa, would players like the Suniulas or Malifas be US eligible without any mainland-born relatives?

Sweet, thanks. Any of you guys coming to Glendale for that?

I don't know, in the interest of being fair I think they should allow it to take place. American Samoa is at least as real a country as Wales is, and USA Rugby to block it on purely our own selection policies would strike me as shortsighted pettiness for a country that should start creating its own players instead of relying on people from places that actually play the game. Not to mention I think you told me in the past when I said a warmup test on the way to NZ in Pago Pago between the Eagles and Manu Samoa would be a neat idea, all the locals would cheer for Manu Samoa.

Besides, do you want Malifa anywhere near our national team's starting fly half job after last year?

(If USA Rugby is going to try and argue that American Samoa is an intrinsic part of our country at least in terms of rugby, then I'd like them to share their knowledge of running rugby in the territory.)


As a bit of a sidenote since we're discussing American Samoa, was looking up last week one thing that led to another and there's apparently a junior (under-19) world championship for American football later on this year that starts June 28th. American Samoa had their first ever representative game playing Australia in the Oceania Bowl in February and in a torrential downpour in Brisbane beat the Aussies 93-7. American Samoa's roster was pulled from the country's 7 high schools.





That led me to wonder what Australian "gridiron" fans said about this. A couple were incensed and then it led to a discussion on difficulties growing the sport in the country, and you could've switched the terms "Australia" for "USA" and "gridiron" for "rugby" and the discussion would've been just about the same. Death by geography, should we be spending money on foreign adventures we're destined to get killed in?, lack of time playing the sport and leading to poor skill levels, commitment, lack of numbers, lack of quality coaches, etc. http://www.thebear.com.au/Topic24267.aspx

Ryan,

You could say the same thing about USAR running rugby in Hawaii. Might as well be its own union.

That said, I'm tempted to agree with you about letting them on their own. Although if it weren't for American Samoans we'd be really screwed at 10. Remember that Malifa's backup at the RWC was Am-Samoan too. Hopefully either Eloff steps up or we can talk Brache into playing for the US and playing 10.

Yes, although their nationality as a separate entity is a little more tenuous than American Samoa since they're an actual state (although like Vermont, Texas, the Confederacy, and Newfoundland, Hawaii was an independent and sovereign country more recently than Wales or Scotland were).



If our country of 310 million is ever going to get anywhere in rugby we're going to have to at some point stop being dependent on an island of 55 thousand.

Don't forget California. Bear Flag Republic for life.

I wonder who the last USA capped born and bred flyhalf was. Probably Matt Sherman and I don't think he was ever first choice? Banking on youth rugby's growth producing some flyhalves down the line. The bonus of this is that the skills of a flyhalf don't translate as easily to something like football as other positions so potentially we could end up with decent play in the halfbacks. Although in saying that, soccer can be a thorn in rugby's side for that too. I know of at least one u19 Eagle flyhalf who played soccer instead of rugby in college because he was on scholarship in soccer...

Geez, most obvious one. And would be the best at rugby.

goey, could you put together a Californian national team? Wondering if it could beat Uruguay.



Not putting names out there, but if he's from Maryland originally I've played with him.

A couple months ago could have included Swiryn.

15 Scully
14 Test
13 Pulu
12 Palamo
11 Hawley
10 Brache
9 Niua
8 Barrett
7 Clever
6 Pretorius
5 Stanfill
4 Manoa
3 Fry
2 Biller
1 MacDonald

Certain positions have a bit more depth than others. Couldn't think of any true locks and back row is a strength in California as it is everywhere else. Also not sure if Rikus Pretorius is even playing anymore although I did see him at a 7s tournament in Santa Barbara last year so I'll just assume yes. Did not include Danny LaPrevotte because he's taking a break from rugby.

Nope, different person. So not at all uncommon since the go to move on high school teams is to put an athletic soccer player at flyhalf since they can kick.

Had a coaching session with Tony Smeeth, the new Eagles backline coach, today at Trinity College in Dublin. We chatted afterwards about the likely selections and the backline will pretty much be the same from the World Cup. Roland will continue at 10, but here's a name to watch out for - Will Holder from Army.

Thanks for the info. Holder is a good player. Haven't seen Army play this year but I haven't seen him dominate the way you'd expect a future Eagle 10 to when I've seen him play. Surprised to possibly see him ahead of someone like Maximo de Achaval.

Did you mention any of the uncapped US eligible players we've discussed here?

Only Pangelinan, didn't really have a lot of time. He says he rates Holder, likes his skills but is concerned about the jump in levels from Army to test rugby. He hopes to bring him in slowly behind Roland Suniula. The Eagles will have very limited prep time for the tests so will largely be experienced players.

I was impressed with his coaching style. Certainly has a very strong personality. Seems to favor an attack plan based on precision over flashy moves. He's big on passing accuracy.

Looking forward to a final between St. Mary's and BYU, with the Gaels smashing the Mormons in Sandy.

Berkeley not playing this year is moot because the Gaels just beat them in a hard fought match.

i really hope american samoa would get excepted to the irb so the game and players can move forward and have their own national team and identity. american football is new to the territory and rugby was the only contact sport on the island but an agreement was reach a while back to only let gridiron played at high school level and rugby at senior club level.
they had a successful flag day sevens tournament last week with teams from samoa and tonga as well as local clubs/villages and i really enjoyed the skills and talents from the local players.

Unfortunately Holder will graduate from West Point soon and will then be required to serve 5 years, so he'll be lost to the national team during his prime years. It will be difficult to maintain test level rugby form and attend national team assemblies while serving as an Army officer. The military sometimes grants special waivers to academy graduates who get contract offers from NFL teams, like Chad Hall from Air Force playing at Philadelphia now, but I haven't heard if service requirement can be waived for sports other than NFL, even if Holder were to be offered a pro rugby contract.

Wow, that sucks for American rugby.

What did he have to say about Zach? I've wished time and again he'd be given a proper shot to claim the US 10 shirt. They've certainly tolerated a lot of flaky performances from Malifa and Hercus before.

David Robinson got a waiver from the Navy so that he could go play in the NBA. He also probably wasn't much use for them after he grew so much. I doubt they'd let Holder go play pro rugby because the other stuff serves as a good advertisement for the academies that helps them with recruiting football and basketball players. There wouldn't be the same level of exposure or benefit for letting Holder do that in rugby.

My dad was an enlisted Marine and he's told me in the past the Robinson thing absolutely pissed him off. After discussing the NFL player a couple years ago, his grand take on it is if you wanted to play pro sports after going to the service academies: 1.) you shouldn't have attended the service academies to begin with, their purpose is not to prepare you to play sports, 2.) since every student at the service academies is on a federally-funded scholarship, if the person wants out of their service commitment, fine, they pay back the full cost of their attendance at the service academy back to the federal government. You as a taxpayer are not investing in Will Holder's education for him to maybe make it as a fly half.

All this said, the military services maintain travelling rugby teams that play at "higher than your run-of-the-mill American club" level. Not the base teams, but like "U.S. Army All-Stars", it's not Rugby Super League, but these teams are still seriously good, so Holder could almost certainly be with them when they play and still fulfilling his Army commitment, all they have to do if they want to do so is make it part of his billet. Or he could do his job and trains at rugby as much as he can on the side, a synthesis of the amateur honing his craft which is what American domestic rugby always has been. There's a Special Forces soldier not far from me at Fort Bragg named Tim Kennedy that does that as a high-level mixed martial artist. Norfolk which I reckon will make the Final 8 of the Division I playoffs, one thing that boosts their level of play is they're full of Navy guys in awesome shape. Holder could just when he makes his request for deployment bases is near a large city and catches on with the highest-level rugby team in the area.

David Robinson grew 4 inches while he was at the Naval Academy. He also almost left before he actually was tied to his commitment (you can leave before your Junior year without penalty I believe) but was talked into staying. He was far more valuable to the Navy as a famous pro basketball player than as an officer. And according to Wikipedia he actually served 2 years.

But anyway, you're right about Holder and hopefully that's the path he'll take.

Speaking of awesome former West Point players, anyone know where Lady Gaga, sorry, Ben Leatigaga, is?



Well I think that team could definitely defeat Uruguay so they'd be the fourth-best side in the Americas. May even beat a "Rest of the U.S." Team.

There's an Australian 'Gridiron' forum. You learn something new everyday. It's a micro sport here. More so than what Rugby is in the US. I only knew of its goings on as I have a couple of mates from High School that either did or currently do represent Australia in both the junior and senior 'Outback' squads.

Only if my team qualifies for Final 4.

Not a chance. Way over rated.

If there's not a chance he could be ahead of Holder in the pecking order, how could he possibly be overrated?

Over-rated by some should I say.

You're entitled to your opinion but I will say that pretty much any time an American player gets brought up you say he's overrated so it's hard to take it seriously.

Care to give a few more examples this please? Since when is Argentinian considered American???