They sanctioned the Anglo-Welsh cup, and that upset a few in the Celtic League didn't it? I don't see it being an issue but if it keeps you happy, carry on.

Nah, still pretty much beating around the same bush.

Lads, would it help if I posted the link to the other thread? That way you could check you were repeating everything for sure.

Stop spoiling the fun

I am a Wasps supporter and trust me when the season was drawing to a close there was no thoughts of perhaps this year the team who finish bottom will gain a reprieve. The assumption was like virtually every year that the team who finish bottom would be relegated. BUT that was just a side issue.

No one has a problem with you guys wanting to keep things the way they are. If we had 10 teams qualify instead of 6 we wouldn't want to give it up. I just don't get why you guys are so angry that the English and French would seek to strengthen their position by weakening yours. It's just business

It will all come down to who has the strongest negotiating position and making sure we have the option to walk away and probably form an Anglo French cup for a year or two while you guys sweat it out is just part of it

Because it's a joke of a league and it's ring fenced so that the shit teams don't have to be scared of relegation?

OK it's a joke you win now get back to the main point. Why are you guys getting upset

Yet you didn't attend a single game all season

The Football league/Premiership also prevents teams that don't meet their requirements from promotion. If London Welsh had sorted things out sooner, or win their appeal, they will be promoted. It's not like this happens every year is it.

Why do you care anyway?

I just think the Newcastle/LWelsh thing's a real shame. And I don't think it's fair, either.

As for the HEC, it'll sort itself out.

but the qualification is set by unions and not the leagues. The scottish get two places, the welsh and irish 3 and the italians 2. It isn't the pro12 that gets 10 places. it's how it's divided up between the unions.

Places are allocated to countries, not leagues. The English and the French could guarantee entry to clubs if you wanted to. That's your business. Perhaps by only allowing clubs that fulfilled certain criteria qualify for Europe regardless of where they finished in their league?

Money talks at the end of the day.

It's a shame but I only get to manage about 3 hours down the pub once a month

That is what both the English and the French are hoping

It shouldn't though.

Sport is always going to be mostly driven by money, but there should still be something more to it.

That would only work if we had regions or franchises similar to you. Why do you care?

That is the beauty of this situation. The two biggest unions in Europe if not the world are trying to use their financial clout to get parity for all three leagues in the European Cup. The screaming and stamping of feet from the Pro12 supporters is quite frankly hilarious.

It's not the unions, you dumb fuck.

That is the case under the current deal. Perhaps you don't understand. That deal comes to an end in two years time and we want to negotiate a new deal . To that end we have served notice to quit. I agree we could do all the things you say when the deal is renegotiated but we don't want to

OK I said unions when I mean leagues. Clearly I made a mistake when in every other post I said leagues not unions. Back to the point. Do you think they have a weak negotiating position

English problem:We have a shit system that causes our players to play too many games and we find it hard to compete in the Premier European competition because most teams are fighting hard to either get to the playoffs or to ensure that they won't be relegated.

English solution:Em,Em, Instead of looking at our own domestic setups and structures and finding a way of changing them to ensure that English club and International rugby flourishes, I know chaps lets moan and throw a tantrum and demand every other nation entering the HC has in place as shitty a system as ours.If they don't we'll take our ball and go home,maybe the Frenchies might come home and play on my tiny balcony in my flat

Define, "find it hard to compete"

Ah the Saffa style of negotiating. Threaten to leave, they end up staying and get bumfucked. If you don't want to withdraw then don't threaten to do so in the first place. Negotiating like adults would help the situation.

the problem in france is that the top14 is shit and too long. If they redid the top14; french clubs would be able to compete in both competitions

One Heineken cup win in the last 8 years

They're talking about adding 2 teams and to have it as is now and not to divide it into two sections of 8 because French TV doesn't like the section idea

Seems a narrow definition of finding it hard to compete. Your interesting timescale choice of "8 years" only features 2 French wins but crucially no Welsh wins and no Scottish wins. Maybe you Irish guys should go it alone.

It's all up for negotiation but I bet the Pro12 teams are a lot more pissed off with the thought of going from 10 out of 12 to 6 out of 12 than having to pick the top 6. It's all about negotiation so don't cry to much about the starting point.

They're running scared. Shameful.

Ok so you can compete then?If you think so you should write a strongly worded letter to the powers that be in English rugby that all is rosy in the garden and they should grow up and stop making threats to pull out of the HC.If it aint broke and all that!

Of course the solution would be to get rid of the LV or whatever it's called that no one gives a toss about Cup. But Premiership Rugby are greedy buggers so rather than stopping flogging the players so they struggle to decently compete in all the comps they look to make it easier for the clubs which actually doesn't make it easier for the players who could do with a rest every now and then especially the internationals.

I genuinely think players won't be treated properly until somebody sues.

They are not threatening to leave. They have given notice to leave. It's not the same thing. Why is it so hard to understand that in order to have to option to leave you have to give notice. Coming up with "negotiating like adults would help" is pathetic. It would be completely irresponsible of anyone charged with managing this process not to give the English and French the option to leave should they be unable to come to an agreement with the pro12. You would have to be a moron to think the Pro12 teams would not use the fact that the English and French were locked in if they did not give notice.

To me that is good as threatening to leave. Why give a notice to leave as it's not their intention to do so? The people running English Rugby (both organisations are a disaster) are thick as pigshit. No doubt it will all be played in front of the media doing the muppets running Premiership Rugby no favours whatsoever.



The Top 14 isn't shit and too long. Their clubs see it as their bread and butter plus it's the Brennus is historical. The clubs that don't recruit and develop their squads should take the blame not the competition itself. Same goes with the style of Rugby being played.

Perhaps lose a couple of the bye weekends where they have no fixtures scheduled so the season finishes at the same time as the Pro 12 and Aviva Premiership.

THey'll argue they need the money and salary cap means players have to play more as there isn't as many as they'd like except of course some aren't spending their full allowance as it is. It's a balancing act I get that, but I still think PR are greedy buggers.

Always the way of things.

And Brumbie, Top 14 is shite. Kick, bosh, kick, bosh, kick, bosh.

it is shit. no tries in the semis nor the final. that's shit in my book.

You do realise the England and French clubs have been sounding out the pro12 teams and they unsurprisingly don't want anything to change. The English and the French clubs are the ones calling for negotiations but the Pro12 don't want to know. They quite rightly want to keep the status quo. You know 10 of their 12 teams in Europe with 6 out of 12 for the English and 6 out of 14 for the French. Why would they want to change unless they were going to get 11 or all of their teams in Europe.

If they won't negotiate what do you suggest the English and French teams do. Just bend over and beg them to use some lube. You can characterise it as a threat to leave all you want but all the parties involved know no one wants to leave.

Joe and Tiddle that is the fault of the teams playing on the day not the competition. The coaches and players choose to play negative Rugby not the LNR. The AP gets a similar bum wrap but that's the opposition of the truth. Both comps have negative teams, however there are teams that attack too like Gloucester, Bordeaux, Montpellier, even Leicester, Clermont, Northampton, etc


bend over to what exactly? The HEC is fine as it is and whatever they are asking for, makes little sense. The Pro 12 aka Celtic Rugby doesn't say the competition has to supply 10 teams. It's a cross border comp what do they expect. It's petulent Saffer style posturing.

Unless you have genuine competition for places with viable replacements, relegation is an inefficient and retarded way of punishing a team for coming last in a competition. What it does to rugby is create conditions conducive for safety first, uninteresting play. The game plan is forced on a team by commercial expediency rather than for the sport itself., next thing you know, you're catering for the lowest common denominator - a la some soccer competitions.