Beaver - On the link I posted it even mentions he played there at school, flyhalf is where he wants to play and his preferred position (as well as the plan was always to move him there). He ended up at fullback during school, because he was out injured for a year and could only get back into the team as a fullback. No Sharks fan disputes any of this, because it's all fact.

I'm actually quite taken aback by this. It's all common knowledge.

You know what. The fact that Lambie is not rated as highly as Goosen is mot a bad thing. The bar has just. Been set so high by Goosen.

Well he's going to be the Sharks 10. That much is clear. So how he'll be the Sharks 10 and Springbok 15 who knows. Plumtree has moved players for the national cause before though, disadvantaging both the player and the team.

Personally I think Goosen's height, kicking and pace, makes him the better choice for 15.

Lambie/Frans/Goosen are the players that should be in line for the Bok 10/12/15 jerseys, whichever order they are selected.

Lambie will be a great asset at 15 in the green jumper.

So many options, future looks bright for the bokke!

Yep. I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. The plan was simple really. Plumtree clearly earmarked him for the number 10 jersey, but did not want to chuck him in there straight away. He'd played flyhalf at school and Plumtree would've recognised the skills the lad had. So he played him at 15 first, and then 12, but then injuries took their toll his hand was forced. You'll note that in the 2011 season Plumtree actually decided to buy some back-up for the 10 position (Potgieter, Michalak) because it's obvious that he did not want to overburden the laaitie. But crucially he's remained first choice throughout. It's fair to say that Plumtree has handled him very well.

What Plumber did is no worse than what many coaches have done in handling talented youngsters. Heyneke Meyer and Rassie Erasmus played Spies and Koster at wing FFS, before moving them back to the forwards.

Goosen looks like a natural 10, that much is clear, the most natural 10 we've seen in SA for a long time. I certainly don't see him ever moving to 15. I reckon you can forget about that.

Goosen's going to be the Cheetahs 10. That much is clear. So how he'll be the Cheetahs 10 and Springbok 15 who knows.

See? You are complaining that a player is moved out of position for the Boks, and immediately afterwards demand that another player, possibly the better player, is moved out of position. No logic there.

The odd thing is that we are arguing about Goosen and Lambie when Morne Steyn is still only 28 and will most likely be a permanent fixture in the side.

What if Morne is the nailed on 10, however he plays, but the Bok coach wants to start Goosen also?

There is logic there. I'm a Sharks fan and it's always our guys that get fucked around. Go back to my first posts on the thread.

We need a solid back-up to Morné at least, so game time will be vital for the chosen bench and that position I think will rather be utility considering our traditional bench split.

With players like Goosen and Lambie waiting in the wings Steyn will have to keep performing if he's going to hold on to the position. You know they already have a hard on for Goosen. It's a good position to be in. Steyn will have to deliver.

This is reverting to the old cliche of South African teams who choose fullbacks who can run and flyhalves who can kick. Other countries choose them in reverse.

Jaco van der Westhuyzen was the fullback who could run (Bulls), until he signed for Leicester Tigers and an Australian coach gave him a No.10 jersey and told him to run there. He won the European Player of the Season or something.

I'd only ever start Morne on the highveld. It suits his game.

So it's just your emotions what are behind your reasoning for playing Lambie as 10 and Goosen as 15.

Leaving Morne aside, for me the key questions are:

1.- Is Goosen the best 10 available for the Springboks?

2.- Would be keeping Lambie as a substitute a waste of his talent? Is he, moved out of position, still the best 15 available?

In my opinion the answer is yes for all questions, so that's why I think playing Goosen as 10 and Lambie as 15 would be a good move.

I am trying to tell them you pick the kicker at the back and the ball runner at the front closer to where the ball is. But they're criticising Lambie for his kicking and praising Goosen for his, with little consideration given to other areas (aside from one post by Sards).

Am I the only one that doesn't think Goosen walks on water?

He looked pretty good in Aus on he weekend, although it was the Rebels. Steyn gets typecast as the kicker, but the Bulls always score a lot of tries. He's been good with the ball in hand this year.

The bok games will tell us a lot, though it's a shame Goosen got injured, otherwise I think they would have gotten him into the starting lineup and perhaps given him some game time.

Lambie is not going to get the chance, he'll probably be at 15. So actually come to think of it, Steyn will have another pressure-free year with the Boks, which isn't that great. I want someone breathing down his neck.

Not inconceivable that Grant could be his backup this year.

Yes.

Sorry to play devil's advocate but there's a high chance that injuries will dictate who wears 10.

We've already lost Goosen, so that leaves us with Lambie, Steyn and outsiders Jantjies and Grant.

I agree that he had a pretty good game against the Rebels. Actually you can't fault Steyn too much in the Bulls jersey as he normally delivers. It's his performances in the green jersey away from the Highveld that have been problematic. Even his kicking radar has often deserted him overseas. And it's not a one-off thing. A few of us have observed this since 2009. I really can't recall a single dominant Morne Steyn performance overseas. Now biting on his heels are two or three very hungry kids who want to be given a chance to showcase what they have.

Grant is a decent shout. He's playing the rugby of his life at the moment, but somehow you get the feeling that coaches in general have never really warmed up to him. I think in other countries he may have ended up with a lot more caps than he will here in SA.

It's not emotions no. Although if you aren't emotional about the side you support to some degree (in moderation), then why bother.

1. It depends who the 9 is and what type of game you want to play. imo no.
2. What attributes mean Lambie is a better 15 than Frans or Goosen? We picked Frans out of position at 15 for years. Because he was tall and could kick far. Almost this entire forum supported this. Joel Stransky went on and on in commentary how it was his best position. His other skills - an immensely powerful ball runner and defender, were ignored wholesale. I maintained through it all he was a 10/12. We've seen how much stronger he is at centre during the RWC.

The reasons for selecting Goosen at 15, are the same that got Frans picked there. Goosen just has less of the X-factor in other areas, that means Frans is better used closer to the ball.

In Lambie you have someone with a boot that isn't big as two other fullback options. A player that whilst small, can defend very capably - in a front on situation. Was it Nonu he cut down time and again in NZ during the TN last year? He's a rock at defending his channel when it's tight and closer to the breakdowns. I would be worried about him having to cover the field and take someone down side on or chasing though. At test level against the very best I mean. Due to his size/body shape (short legs, big torso), he has a low centre of gravity, close in his lack of outright pace doesn't matter because he can hand off Schalk Burger to score a try. He often gets past the first tackler, or just as importantly makes ground through him. At fullback it's all about eating up the space when you run the ball, others are faster than him. Above it all, he's just a better flyhalf than fullback. Others are quite wrong that Lambie doesn't have a feel for flyhalf, it's his game sense and awareness in the position that mean it's the position he should play.

What would be a waste of his talent, is playing him in a position that isn't his best. Expecting something of him others can better provide, then just chucking him for someone else after you've fucked him around and saying "the Sharks ruined him". I've seen this movie before.

WP - the conveyer belt of the world's most mediocre flyhalves.

AF I am going to bookmark this one.

I'm with Dryden, so quiet in the cheap seats.

He's good, will be a Springbok. But people have lost all control of themselves, just look at the thread title.

No worries Oom I hope I'm wrong but your lot have got a lot to make up for!

Handre Pollard, write down the name. Two more years and I am going to throw this WeePee wannabe like Ox is qouting back in his face.

Why are you bringing me into this?

Thing is I know you are actually going to remember me as having said this and call me out on it. When I said no such thing. Same as with JdJ.

Tell me more about him - playing school or club?

Always great to hear about the depth of talent we have in SA, must the the best in the rugby playing world.

I think we can all agree on the last bit

I have no doubt Goosen would be excellent at 15 also; as you said, he has a height advantage, a bigger boot and a bit more pace - he will be deadly joining the line at speed. That being said, he just seems more comfortable and natural than Lambie at 10.

I love Lambie's composure at the back. His solid defence at 15 just puts me at ease.

Morne has disappointed for the Boks at times, but I'll wait to see him perform under Meyer. We had a shit setup under PdV for the most part and I don't think there was always a clear plan. He's not a guy whose mercurial talent alone is going to win games.

Grant has been very good this year, at least as good as Lambie, and if the latter plays 15 I reckon Grant will probably come into the picture as backup with Goosen injured. There's Elton as well, I suppose, but Grant has certainly been better than him as well this year.

WP did recycle a few mediocre FHs. Willem de Waal as Exhibit A. Still the man had the best kicking % year in and year out.

That just means Lambie will cover both positions.

I get your point, but I don't agree with it. In my opinion this is like a game of Tetris. Putting all the pieces together so the overall performance is the best possible. You say why play Lambie as 15 when his best performance would be given as 10. Well, I think exactly the same of Goosen, and as I rate him higher than Pat, I'd give him the 10 shirt. And I think that if Goosen (and Morné) weren't there, Lambie should be given another chance as 10. But having a better player, or prospect, for that position rules him out.

Then, who would be the best option for fullback? I think Frans makes a better fullback than Lambie, but as Frans makes more of a difference as centre, I'd use him there. That's my whole point, if we only use the players in their primary position we would be wasting tons of talent. Then, I think that Lambie playing 15 is better than any of the natural-born fullbacks, so I'd play him there. It's simple as that, not a conspiracy against Sharks players to make them look bad.

Paarl Gyms current 10. Played Craven Week since last year from the bench. Watched him since his U13 days. He look like a lock, kicks like a donkey and cut through the line like a hot knive through butter. Have a WP contract since the start of last year, pretty much a first for a Bloedwors.

I agree on every word you said.

Ideally, with Goosen injured, Lambie would be Steyn's backup, but we don't have a lot of quality at 15, so he's needed there. Otherwise who do we pick there, Joe P? Sideshow? Not liking either of those two options.

Aplon will be our 15 backup.

You haven't stated the logic behind your conclusions, but asked me to state mine. I was kind enough to do so. It's hard for me to reply unless you say why you have made your choices, you've just said "I disagree, rate them differently and don't feel bad about moving a player around because I don't like him as much". Sorry chief, that doesn't cut it.

Ox he try to tell you nicely that you are a one eyed Guppie doos.