Google is your friend, preferably before you open your mouth, my friend.

President Higgins was inaugurated in November 2011.

Nah- end of last year

I don't accept this at all.

A normal person does not allow children to be raped to further their own career. That's not merely doing something slightly dubious because you're looking after number one

He's a fucking scumbag. I'd love to see the cunt in jail for the rest of his life. I have more respect for most murderers.

Is Brady in the clear as far as kiddie fiddling goes? As there is no way I would cover up for someone up to that sort of shit

Why ?
In 1991 I smoked in my office, I went out for a beer at lunch time.
Times have changed.

Here is a very relevent site for the UK.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/questions/reporting_child_abuse_wda74908.html
The oldest referred doc there appears to be 1998, and it refers back to 1991.

Here is a flavour of the real world

Brady is just employing the Murdochs defence

THat's pretty impressive. I can honestly say I can't think of one British politician (excl NI don't know them well enough) who I would have no doubt they'd give the money back without some kind of media pressure. I mean can you imagine Cherie Blair having a budget for entertaining and not have to give it back. Everyone would be eating food from Iceland and tap water.

I accept your point and I would like to believe that if you or I were in that position we would act 'correctly' however, it is without doubt that many more people in the church knew of these horrific crimes and chose not to act, as far as locking him up, there exists no legal compulsion for any person to act in response to a crime. A moral compulsion, perhaps, but legal, no. The vast majority of laws are designed to prevent evil and thereby allow good to exist. But laws are not designed to compel people to "do good". So he will not see the inside of a prison cell.

Brady is an accessory after the fact. He needs to do jail time for that.

PLenty of Irish folk on the thread and wasn't worth starting another.

If he reported his findings to a superior, it would be extremely difficult to prove that in a court of law, no matter what you think of him morally.

Brady still has his job
I can't see a headmaster hiding child abuse in his school keep his

A teacher is appointed by the state, and a cardinal is appointed by God.
Statistically God does not appear as efficient at sacking people.

I find people saying Brady's inaction (or actual plain hiding) of sexual abuse of children is not as bad as the abusers quite disgusting to be honest.

To say the one dude that could actually have a chance of ending it, rather that letting it go on and on and on, while preaching his moral highground, is not a piece of fucking scum, who should be locked up is baffling to me.

Just my opinion obviously

Or appointing the right people in the first place.

I think he should get a written warning on his record at least.

Anyone else who was involved in protecting paedophiles from prosecution whilst knowing that they would rape and molest more children would be prosecuted fro complicity..... anyone else. So stop fucking about protecting this cunt and the bunch of cunts above him. Right up to the topmost cunt who swore them all to secrecy.

Why have the people of Ireland put up with this scandal
What a gutless bunch theyve been

How would the state go about seizing church property and fining it´s way out of this economic mess?

What have they got that we could sell to the Chinese?

If I know a rape happened in the workplace, simply reporting it to my line manager and washing my hands of it isn't going to cut mustard, especially if I know other rapes are happening and are likely to happen again in the future.
By not reporting it, I am an accessory to the crime.

No. If a junior Engineer reports that a building is unsafe to his superior in a written report; he won't be held responsible if the building falls down killing people because his superior failed to report that the building was unstable. If a junior doctor reports a dangerous medical condition to his superior, he won't be held responsible if the patient dies due to the superiors actions, or inactions.

Brady may well be morally a cunt, but legally I think he is OK.

This isn't an episode of Law and fucking Order ffs.

In this instances a crime had not necessarily been committed at the time of reporting to the superior.

Of all the things not to be intelligently designed, the Church is one of the most perverse examples...

Well then, a junior policeman writing a report for a superior cannot be held culpable for the inaction of the superior.

It's certainly not something that has evolved at all. It's still pretty medieval.

No, because he has already reported it to a police officer.
Which is what Brady should have done.

I do imagine that it would be impossible to prosecute him.

Not with the moral weight of the church behind him

quote :There are no specific mandatory laws in the UK that require professionals to report any suspicions they may have of child abuse to the authorities. In Northern Ireland, however, it is an offence not to report an arrestable crime to the police, which by definition, includes crimes against children.1

does this mean that in the UK it is not an offence to report and arrestable crime ? if i know a murder has taken place, who did it and most likely that the perpetrator will re offend and dont report then i have not committed a crime ? or are we saying that you actually do have to report the crime EXCEPT if its kiddie fiddling in which case everything is ok ?

anyone know if the original abuse crimes all happened in the Republic or Northern Ireland and if the meetings at which the crimes were being discussed that Brady attended occured in the Republic or NI ?

i really dont care at this point about whether he resigns or not I'm more concerned about the actual laws of the land being applied ; the entire Cannon law issue is a complete red herring - make up all the laws you want, dont allow priests to marry, fine ; dont allow homosexual priests, dont really give a shit ; make up all the daft laws you want for your fucked up organization but when you start breaking the laws of the land especially paedophilia and the covering up thereof then the full weight of the law applies ; your rules say you cant divulge anything disclosed in confession....your call but if you're breaking the law, we should be coming after you.

and as for the Vatican PR machine, fuck off ; you've been banging on about addressing the issue, being more transparent etc yet all this shit we find out about from a BBC doucmentary ?

If we (or the NI authorities) can charge this fucker with absolutely anything we should.

If we can't (and I reluctantly accept that may be the case) it doesn't change the basic situation. He's a fucking worm of a man and he shouldn't be in charge of a TV remote control, let alone be the most senior Catholic official in Ireland.

I can't believe the fucker described what he did as 'unhelpful'

I don't believe in god or hell but if I did I'd be pretty sure where this prick was headed. I hope he gets ass cancer.

this is more like it....fuck resignations, lets see some jail time


US lawyer abused by Brendan Smyth says Seán Brady should be criminally investigatedUpdated: 14:20, Friday, 4 May 2012

A victim of Fr Brendan Smyth has said Cardinal Seán Brady should not only resign but should be investigated by secular authorities for possible criminal charges.Article Video (3) Audio (4)
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There is growing pressure on Seán Brady to resignPlay Stop Morning Ireland: Joe Little reports that a leading theologian says Cardinal Brady should resign
Play Stop Morning Ireland: Vatican view on pressure on Cardinal Brady - The Universe's Gerard O'Connell
Related StoriesPressure grows on Cardinal Séan Brady to resign
A victim of Fr Brendan Smyth has said Cardinal Seán Brady should not only resign but be investigated by secular authorities for possible criminal charges.

US lawyer Helen McGonigle was abused by the paedophile priest in the late 1960s in Rhode Island.

Speaking to BBC Ulster this morning, Ms McGonigle said she was "outraged" by Cardinal Brady's response to allegations in a BBC documentary broadcast this week.

‘The Shame of the Catholic Church’ claimed that Cardinal Brady did not pass on information about abuse to families of children involved.

Ms McGonigle said he had shown "arrogance and insensitivity".

The lawyer said the events of 1975 came after Smyth "had destroyed" her family, but said she had great sympathy for those who suffered in subsequent years.

Ms McGonigle said Cardinal Sean Brady's "duty as a human" was to protect children. She said the failure to act properly on Brendan Boland's complaint was "unforgivable".

Elsewhere, the Catholic Communications Office has rejected reports that Cardinal Brady was willing to resign two years ago over the affair.

A report in today’s Irish Independent says that the Vatican rejected an offer from Cardinal Brady to step down.

Brady controversy about 'acceptance of responsibility'

Taoiseach Enda Kenny says it is not for him to determine who leads the Catholic Church, or any other organisation in Ireland.

"Clearly the controversy surrounding Cardinal Brady is about the acceptance of responsibility and it is the responsibility of the state to enact laws to protect children."

He said the Government had already appointed a senior Minister for Children and published legislation on mandatory reporting when it comes to the sexual abuse of children.

Meanwhile, one of the country's leading theologians has said Cardinal Brady has lost his moral credibility and should resign as the Catholic Primate of All Ireland.

Fr Vincent Twomey, a retired professor of moral theology at St Patrick's College in Maynooth, said there were issues arising from the current controversy that the Catholic Church must address internally.

The BBC documentary alleged that claims made by a boy in 1975 - to a church inquiry - were not passed on to parents of other victims or to gardaí or police.

Fr Twomey said that he thought Cardinal Brady should now step down for the good of the church.

The Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has also called for the cardinal to resign.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Pat Kenny, she said: “He was a man in his middle 30s at the time who was a Doctor of Divinity.

"You could say at that stage that people like that were tremendously naiive. But he was highly educated. He also held a position in a school.

"I personally think that he needs to reflect on his position, and were he to ask me for my view on a personal basis, I would say his position is not really sustainable.”

Haven't been following all this as closely as i should. Can anyone tell me what the story with the Gardai is in all of this? Have they got a massive case file that they are working through where living alleged perpetrators and their "accomplices" are being investigated?

This is just how it appears to me, and I could be completely wrong. But it appears that despite all the bluster, the Gardai and the Govt don't want to hold any individuals responsible. It's the catholic church they're holding to account only.

Ether - I've read stuff about Gardai at the time either not being told or when being told they did nothing. It seems a lot of people did nothing thefore it you go after individuals you open up a whole nest of worms you want to keep closed.

wasnt there a case from the US (Portland maybe ?) of an individual that had been abused suing the Vatican ?....gwan Inda, fuck closing Embassies, get the Vatican to stump up for the full 100% of what the abuse cases are costing the state...not the couple of quid Bertie let them off with...arrest Brady just to show you mean business

I do not think your interpretation is correct, I think there is a distinct difference between 'not reporting' and 'concealing' a crime, the former is not a crime, the latter is. Brady was part of, or led an investigation into these terrible acts, and passed that on to his superiors, he did not personally conceal the crime, his findings were in black and white, or else we would not be discussing this, there is certainly a case for the crime of concealment, but I am not sure it rests with Brady, although one fact needs to be answered, surrounding the wording of the binding of Boland to secrecy, this, I believe, is why the church are concentrating on clarifying what was meant by this statement. In my opinion there needs to be a criminal investigation surrounding the whole matter, but I would suspect that any actions would be directed at decision makers at the time further up the ladder in the Catholic Church, no doubt all of those have left this life now. an investigation of any substance would undoubtedly expose a culture of Abhorrent proportions, there will undoubtedly be a proportion of the church who would fall under the Genovese Syndrome, but the decision makers could not declare this defence. As crimes were still happening in this century, there must be some culpable people left to prosecute, and that may well be Brady, that imho is where the criminal prosecutions can arise.

On this particular matter, it is unlikely that the CPS in the UK, or their equivalent in the Republic would consider prosecuting this case, Brady's crime here is moral and therefore he is no way qualified to hold the post he does, and must resign. I really do hope after this exposure there is now a full investigation into the Catholic Church.

To 'The Mighty All Blacks', I am stating my legal understanding, there are people who need to answer for this concealment, but in this particular case, my moral judgement still stands, forget about it being Brady, but the person who led that investigation and passed it to his superiors, is in no way comparable to the monsters who carried out the crimes, inaction by the leaders of the church gets closer, and Brady could well be involved in that later on his career, morally after finding out that nothing was done about the particular Preist, it would have taken a strong character to stand up and whistle blow, there is a lot of procrastinators on this site, who contest they would have thrown away their career, income etc. to report this crime .... I am not so sure that put in the same position all would carry it out, the Genovese Sydrome exists, no matter what is said.

definition of conceal could get interesting

Yes, I think that is why the Church are getting their story straight on the secrecy statement Boland was made to sign ..... it is Brady that has brought this to a head, but really there needs to be a criminal investigation with a wide net, their are of course some very good people in the church, but undoubtedly some evil bastards.

and conspiracy for that matter

He's not a gard. Or an engineer, or a doctor. He's not following legal avenues, professional standards or medical guidelines. Reporting to his superior within the church means dick legally. It's like me claiming that I told my friend there was a problem and we, my friend and I, had decided between ourselves that all legal issues and reports betwen us would go through him and then be reported to the Law. And so because he didn't report it after I reported it to him though our makey-uppy procedure I'm not culpable. Bull. Shit. Canon Law is not the state law and should not excuse someone from fulfilling their legal and moral obligation. He knew a crime was being committed and was negligent in reporting that fact or ensuring that it was reported.

I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of the church hiding behind their rules and regulations. Guess what, they're not our rules and regulations and if you don't like that then get the fuck out of our country. The fact he is a priest should mean nothing, and morally he hasn't a leg to stand on.

You can't be serious? This isn't anunsafe building or medical condition - this is the raping of children.

I repeat my belief that ANYONE else who had covered that up would be held compicit.