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Calculus
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:55 pm 
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gay penguins

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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:56 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Openside wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
If it is, OS, it's not something unique to gay men. Do you stop knackers breeding because they have kids with multiple people?



I am not suggesting anyone should be stopped per se - I was just querying why Muse seemed to be disputing the well documented promiscuity of the gay community.

I am not making a judgement on it at all just a factual call I am sure if I was a whoopsie I would be a complete slut.

The stories of the SF and NY bath houses would make your hair curl!!!


Is it well documented?

I know you're older than me, but that was pre-AIDs, etc. None of the gay lads I know are, to my knowledge, raging man whores. In fact, I know two lads who've both been in stable relationships the entire time I've known them.

Also, if my recent jurisprudential studies are anything to go by, nobody's been able to prove anything of the sort in recent times.

It's not really on to still be bringing up the carry on of lads in NY and SF in the 80s ffs.



Not sure the relevance of this - I stand to be corrected but it my impression it is only the onset of AIDS that put any form of brake on that behaviour. I understand that that sort of behaviour still occurs in certain WC's (glory holes and the like) But I am no expert so willing to be shot down.
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Sefton wrote:
I've never told anybody this but OS turned me gay.



Well you are only human!!


Muse


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wow. just wow. so you are actually going to be teaching your children that being gay is wrong. there are so many implications to this.


Is that directed at me??
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Sefton
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Openside wrote:
Sefton wrote:
I've never told anybody this but OS turned me gay.



Well you are only human!!


Muse


Quote:
wow. just wow. so you are actually going to be teaching your children that being gay is wrong. there are so many implications to this.


Is that directed at me??


He was directing it at Clanger.
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UncleFB
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Openside wrote:
Uncle FB


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I think the question you ask is stupid too, if children of same sex couples can be 'turned' gay, which to be honest is what you are implying, how the fuck do children of heterosexual couples become gay? Watching the Birdcage, listening to the YMCA, watching Modern Family?



Have you actually read what I have written - at no point have I suggested that at all!!!

Yes, I've read what you've written and that is the only implication that can be read from it no matter how you want to spruce it up. If you have a different explanation then it would be welcome.
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musefreek
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:00 pm 
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clanger have you got any idea what sort of pressure you will be putting your children under, in the event that one of them might be gay, by teaching them that homosexuality is wrong?

there is absolutely no doubt that in the western world gays are getting more rights, so by teaching your children that it's wrong you are only making life hard for them in future.
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:02 pm 
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UncleFB wrote:
Openside wrote:
Uncle FB


Quote:
I think the question you ask is stupid too, if children of same sex couples can be 'turned' gay, which to be honest is what you are implying, how the fuck do children of heterosexual couples become gay? Watching the Birdcage, listening to the YMCA, watching Modern Family?



Have you actually read what I have written - at no point have I suggested that at all!!!

Yes, I've read what you've written and that is the only implication that can be read from it no matter how you want to spruce it up. If you have a different explanation then it would be welcome.




I have not suggested that at all I have merely asked a morally based question. That being would Muse still think it was OK to adopt kids into single sex couples if evidence showed a greater incidence of the offspring going on to be gay themselves. (the whole nature vs nurture debate)

How you have read anything other than that into my question is a mystery :? I actually believe that in the main gays are born not produced.


Last edited by Openside on Mon May 28, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:03 pm 
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musefreek wrote:
clanger have you got any idea what sort of pressure you will be putting your children under, in the event that one of them might be gay, by teaching them that homosexuality is wrong?

there is absolutely no doubt that in the western world gays are getting more rights, so by teaching your children that it's wrong you are only making life hard for them in future.

If i needed proof of what I speak...oh the fucking irony.
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musefreek
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Openside wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Openside wrote:
Uncle FB


Quote:
I think the question you ask is stupid too, if children of same sex couples can be 'turned' gay, which to be honest is what you are implying, how the fuck do children of heterosexual couples become gay? Watching the Birdcage, listening to the YMCA, watching Modern Family?



Have you actually read what I have written - at no point have I suggested that at all!!!

Yes, I've read what you've written and that is the only implication that can be read from it no matter how you want to spruce it up. If you have a different explanation then it would be welcome.




I have not suggested that at all I have merely asked a morally based question. That being would Muse still think it was OK to adopt kids into single sex couples if evidence showed a greater incidence of the offspring going on to be gay themselves.

How you have read anything other than that into my question is a mystery :? I actually believe that in the main gays are born not produced.


stop involving me in your silly question at once. i have stated that is was a stupid question and was clearly reluctant to answer it because it's so stupid. i also stated very clearly that i would adopt a child and see sexuality as totally inconsequential.
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:07 pm 
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musefreek wrote:
Openside wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Openside wrote:
Uncle FB


Quote:
I think the question you ask is stupid too, if children of same sex couples can be 'turned' gay, which to be honest is what you are implying, how the fuck do children of heterosexual couples become gay? Watching the Birdcage, listening to the YMCA, watching Modern Family?



Have you actually read what I have written - at no point have I suggested that at all!!!

Yes, I've read what you've written and that is the only implication that can be read from it no matter how you want to spruce it up. If you have a different explanation then it would be welcome.




I have not suggested that at all I have merely asked a morally based question. That being would Muse still think it was OK to adopt kids into single sex couples if evidence showed a greater incidence of the offspring going on to be gay themselves.

How you have read anything other than that into my question is a mystery :? I actually believe that in the main gays are born not produced.


stop involving me in your silly question at once. i have stated that is was a stupid question and was clearly reluctant to answer it because it's so stupid. i also stated very clearly that i would adopt a child and see sexuality as totally inconsequential.


Muse you are becoming shrill and that won't help with stereotypes ;)

Frankly is isn't a stupid question at all it is actually a very important one that fundamentally goes to your suitability as a parent and that is why you don't want to answer it!!
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Waratah
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:08 pm 
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musefreek wrote:
clanger has made his mind up about us gays and that is that. we are evil and disgusting and are changing the world into somthing simply irredeemably horrible.

You going for the record for false premises? When it comes to what is natural or usual, homosexuality has a very poor claim, because it's neither of those things. That doesn't make it irredeemably horrible or even wrong or anyone else's business. But it's not normal because it doesn't fit the definition of 'not conforming to the standard or the common type.'


Last edited by Waratah on Mon May 28, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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musefreek
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:09 pm 
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er, no, i only responded to you because you have taken my answer totally out of context. now piss off.
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Liathroidigloine
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:11 pm 
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musefreek wrote:
Openside wrote:
musefreek wrote:
Quote:
1) well the laws have changed around paternity and adoption leave.Laws schmaws kids need a mother and a father not two mothers!!
2) what exactly aren't you comfortable? parenting is based on quality i believe. I don't think parenting is based on equality at all
3) it's a stupid question and i don't understand why you want to know something like this.I genuinely don't think it is a stupid question at all - what I am asking is if Same sex parents essentially produced greater incidence of gay children would you still be in favour of it - a Yes or no would suffice what is the point? i've never heard anyone else ask this question. but seeing as this is such a straightforward question my answer is yes. Are you saying you would be OK with potentailly turning a child gay during the process of same sex parenting but i wouldn't adopt a kid in the hope that he'd be gay. that is inconsequential. i'd adopt a kid because i love children and would want to raise one of my own in a loving environment.

it's funny that you have a fear of effeminate gays when i in fact am perceived as a mincing queen on here, yet we josh all the time. You are a bit of a whoopsie with your clothes threads etc but you like rugby and have a decent sense of humour and I am totally comfortable with my sexuality so I am not fazed by it all all -


1) now you see this is really angering me again. that someone who i consider to be a friend has a view like this.Why just because I don't share your view must it anger you - what is I said the fact that you think same sex adoption is the way to go angerted me?? i have every single right Actually no you don't it is a right conferred on you by the state due to you opting out of growing your ownto raise a child with a partner and evidence points to the quality of parenting as the thing that matters, not whether it's a man and woman or same-sex.TBH this is all too new for there to be any actual evidence!!
3) have i not made myself clear that i would raise a child in which his/her sexuality would be entirely consequential?Of course you would want that , but what if evidence showed that it didn't turn out that way??



1) because usually where gay people have straight friends, these friends are liberal and share the views relating gay-issues. just goes to show, real life friends >>>>>> online friends. 3) if the evidence pointed to that i would still adopt as being gay is a usual and normal occurence in life and society. after all, straight parent produce gay children themselves.


Is this because Gay people only like "liberals" as friends or that conservatives dont want to be friends with gayers? BTW, I'm fairly consevative and have gay friends, we dont agree on all matters the same way that I dont agree with all my straight friends about all things. It must be boring to only hang around with liberal fuckwits
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musefreek
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Waratah wrote:
musefreek wrote:
clanger has made his mind up about us gays and that is that. we are evil and disgusting and are changing the world into somthing simply irredeemably horrible.

You going for the record for false premeses? When it comes to what is natural or usual, homosexuality has a very poor claim, because it's neither of those things. That doesn't make it irredeemably horrible or even wrong or anyone else's business. But it's not normal because it doesn't fit the definition of 'not conforming to the standard or the common type.'


well i feel pretty normal. so there.
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:12 pm 
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musefreek wrote:
er, no, i only responded to you because you have taken my answer totally out of context. now piss off.



Your answer appeared to be (correct me if I am wrong) that even if evidence showed that same sex couples did lead to a greater than normal incidence of gay children you would continue to adopt. - Is that right?


Argue your corner Muse don't have a hissy fit.
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musefreek
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
musefreek wrote:
Openside wrote:
musefreek wrote:
Quote:
1) well the laws have changed around paternity and adoption leave.Laws schmaws kids need a mother and a father not two mothers!!
2) what exactly aren't you comfortable? parenting is based on quality i believe. I don't think parenting is based on equality at all
3) it's a stupid question and i don't understand why you want to know something like this.I genuinely don't think it is a stupid question at all - what I am asking is if Same sex parents essentially produced greater incidence of gay children would you still be in favour of it - a Yes or no would suffice what is the point? i've never heard anyone else ask this question. but seeing as this is such a straightforward question my answer is yes. Are you saying you would be OK with potentailly turning a child gay during the process of same sex parenting but i wouldn't adopt a kid in the hope that he'd be gay. that is inconsequential. i'd adopt a kid because i love children and would want to raise one of my own in a loving environment.

it's funny that you have a fear of effeminate gays when i in fact am perceived as a mincing queen on here, yet we josh all the time. You are a bit of a whoopsie with your clothes threads etc but you like rugby and have a decent sense of humour and I am totally comfortable with my sexuality so I am not fazed by it all all -


1) now you see this is really angering me again. that someone who i consider to be a friend has a view like this.Why just because I don't share your view must it anger you - what is I said the fact that you think same sex adoption is the way to go angerted me?? i have every single right Actually no you don't it is a right conferred on you by the state due to you opting out of growing your ownto raise a child with a partner and evidence points to the quality of parenting as the thing that matters, not whether it's a man and woman or same-sex.TBH this is all too new for there to be any actual evidence!!
3) have i not made myself clear that i would raise a child in which his/her sexuality would be entirely consequential?Of course you would want that , but what if evidence showed that it didn't turn out that way??



1) because usually where gay people have straight friends, these friends are liberal and share the views relating gay-issues. just goes to show, real life friends >>>>>> online friends. 3) if the evidence pointed to that i would still adopt as being gay is a usual and normal occurence in life and society. after all, straight parent produce gay children themselves.


Is this because Gay people only like "liberals" as friends or that conservatives dont want to be friends with gayers? BTW, I'm fairly consevative and have gay friends, we dont agree on all matters the same way that I dont agree with all my straight friends about all things. It must be boring to only hang around with liberal fuckwits


thinking about it most of my real life friends and other gays' friends are mostly pretty liberal, so as a general answer i'd say yes. and it's certainly not boring.
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?
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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.



Well that took the wind from their sails :P
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?



I imagine you would find that view still fairly widespread in the UK :(
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hairbear
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Openside wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?



I imagine you would find that view still fairly widespread in the UK :(


Nonsense, OS.. I can understand, but not agree with, those people who have certain "issues" with gays, but, imho, the vast majority, I'd hope, wouldn't consider mixed marriages as being unnatural, unless someone can provide some stats to back it up. (Anecdotal DM headlines don't count)
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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?

I would say they were wrong to hold that view, but I wouldn't force my view upon them.
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?

I would say they were wrong to hold that view, but I wouldn't force my view upon them.


So you would be happy for them to raise racist children?
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:00 pm 
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hairbear wrote:
Openside wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?



I imagine you would find that view still fairly widespread in the UK :(


Nonsense, OS.. I can understand, but not agree with, those people who have certain "issues" with gays, but, imho, the vast majority, I'd hope, wouldn't consider mixed marriages as being unnatural, unless someone can provide some stats to back it up. (Anecdotal DM headlines don't count)



Neither would I, although I think they have the whole different culture aspect to add onto the already difficult job of being married. I was actually responding to the comment of White kids being brought up by Black parents being unnatural and sadly I do think that opinion would still be a prevalent one toady. Happy to be proved wrong (as ever)
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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:06 pm 
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I wouldnt be happy, but i wouldn't force my view on others and teach my children it is wrong to be racist. Where ate you going with this?
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Conservative Eddie
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?

I would say they were wrong to hold that view, but I wouldn't force my view upon them.


What do you mean by, 'forcing your view on them'? Many of them no doubt regarded the 1964 Civil Rights Act, as "liberals forcing their views upon them".

Their views were odious and even worse, was them disseminating their views to their own children. The comparison between gay couples and inter-racial couples, is that those in society who object, often have arguments that consist of nothing better than, "I don't like the look of it, I find it personally repulsive, I don't find it natural".
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Conservative Eddie wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?

I would say they were wrong to hold that view, but I wouldn't force my view upon them.


What do you mean by, 'forcing your view on them'? Many of them no doubt regarded the 1964 Civil Rights Act, as "liberals forcing their views upon them".

Their views were odious and even worse, was them disseminating their views to their own children. The comparison between gay couples and inter-racial couples, is that those in society who object, often have arguments that consist of nothing better than, "I don't like the look of it, I find it personally repulsive, I don't find it natural".



You don't seem very conservative :P
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Conservative Eddie wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger: How do you feel about interracial marriage and different race adoption?

All for it.


So what would you say about the prevalent opinion of society in the pre civil right era who had the view of black people raising White children etc. As being "unnatural"?

I would say they were wrong to hold that view, but I wouldn't force my view upon them.


What do you mean by, 'forcing your view on them'? Many of them no doubt regarded the 1964 Civil Rights Act, as "liberals forcing their views upon them".

Their views were odious and even worse, was them disseminating their views to their own children. The comparison between gay couples and inter-racial couples, is that those in society who object, often have arguments that consist of nothing better than, "I don't like the look of it, I find it personally repulsive, I don't find it natural".


This is where I was going.
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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:27 pm 
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That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.
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Cthulu's Trilby
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


When we talk about 'nurture' what sort of nurture makes one gay?
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jrp
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Cthulu's Trilby wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


When we talk about 'nurture' what sort of nurture makes one gay?


Being forced to make curtains and matching cushion covers.
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.
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Akkerman
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.

He also believes Cornwall should be independent :?
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Clanger
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.

Using animal behavior to justify human morality if fucking stupid. My dog eats shit out of my nippers nappy and likes the smell of her friends arses....
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jrp
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.

Using animal behavior to justify human morality if fucking stupid. My dog eats shit out of my nippers nappy and likes the smell of her friends arses....


This is brilliant :lol:
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Openside
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.

Using animal behavior to justify human morality if fucking stupid. My dog eats shit out of my nippers nappy and likes the smell of her friends arses....

:lol: :lol: :lol:


a Border terrier?? truly the stupidest dogs alive!!
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etherman
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:44 pm 
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This is a nothing story. My Dad once got removed from an entire hospital.

Apparently nurses only GIVE bedbaths. :frown:
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Council
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.

Using animal behavior to justify human morality if fucking stupid. My dog eats shit out of my nippers nappy and likes the smell of her friends arses....

:lol:

Animals are the perfect comparison: you are saying that being gay is a human morality issue. The best way to test that assertion is by looking at a population which is absent of human morality I.e. Animals.
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jrp
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
Council wrote:
Clanger wrote:
That argument only works if gays are born gay. Like Peter Tatchell I do not believe you are born gay.


If it's not genetic then why do we get gay animals?

Gay animals would suggest that it is a factor in nature and not an issue of free will/choice.

Using animal behavior to justify human morality if fucking stupid. My dog eats shit out of my nippers nappy and likes the smell of her friends arses....

:lol:

Animals are the perfect comparison: you are saying that being gay is a human morality issue. The best way to test that assertion is by looking at a population which is absent of human morality I.e. Animals.


I thought you were going to say Essex there.
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